I Should Be Writing....

[dawn_felagund]

But as you can see, I am not.


It is a beautiful day outside. We had breakfast on the balcony this morning. Bobby made cheesy eggs, chocolate chip muffins, and pineapple rings. We were attacked by yellow jackets. I killed one with a spoon and nearly wept for the regret. I don't kill things. Spiders and insects get caught with a napkin and a cup and let go outside. (Some critters, like millipedes, I don't mind and will allow to wander around the apartment, but Bobby is squicked by them.) Bobby is quite frightened of bees, and so when the yellow jacket landed on his plate, my first thought was to keep him from getting stung and--

GAK!!

If it had been my plate, I would have just let it crawl around, lick up the pineapple juice, and if it stung me...oh, well. (I am so going to have an allergic reaction someday! But I can't bring myself to hate/fear bees!)

Allergic reactions to bees work the opposite of immunity to pathogens. While exposure to a virus will allow the immune system to fight it better the next time it sees it, the chemical that causes allergic reactions to beestings builds up a little more with each sting, so a person who has been stung a lot is more apt to have an allergic reaction. My uncle, like me, had been stung hundreds of times over the course of his life, and one day, he just had an allergic reaction. Now, he has to carry a beesting kit.
/biology lesson for the day :)

That'll probably be me one day.... *sigh*

Today's Teh Über Day of Ice Skating. I'm going to a public session with Bobby this afternoon, and he's playing pick-up hockey tonight. The man has been inconsolable about hockey: NHL's getting ready to start up, and he begins his league in a few weeks. I'm happy for him :)

The other night, at skating class, I was pissed off because of a financial foible that I made, and I was skating like a maniac. At one point, I realized that I was coming out of spins and three-turning into another; that I didn't even take a thirty-second break to relax or have a swallow of water. Oh, and because I know everyone has been worrying over my knee (;D), rest assured that it is fine now. I was back up to doing open flips and everything on Wednesday, so it must have been a little twist and nothing serious, which is good because it really hurt that one day, and I was worried.

I skated so hard that I kept waking up all that night because my poor abused ankles hurt so badly. The next day, I told Bobby, and he said, "Good."

"Good?!" I said, but I laughed. It's just an example of how we understand each other. Most people wouldn't think it "good" for his wife to hurt herself in club skating! But he knows that I consider a practice a good practice if it hurts a little (or more!) the next day. After all, he was the one so happy to feel "used" after skating all last weekend ;)

Oh, and I have achieved one of my goals for the year, already. Wednesday, in the midst of the madness, I started nailing the outer-forward spins. Of course, the real question remains: Will I be able to do them at private lessons tomorrow?

Those of us who are called "advanced specialist" skaters always joke that the presence of our teacher makes us unable to do skills that we can do perfectly in actuality. So we witness each other doing them and vouch to Miss Jackie, "Sure, she can do outer-forward spins when you're not around!"

That never works, though. She still stands there and watches us until we do them for her too!

The next night, I had insomnia again because I couldn't stop thinking about the floor plan for my eventual ice cream store. I want to sketch it out sometime, in between the other half-million things I have to do. One of the things that annoyed me the most about The Piece was the poor organization of the kitchen. (And being the kitchen manager, I got to know this keenly.) The Piece was designed as a small burger joint, serving a limited array of grilled foods. Then, some genius decided that we should also serve fajitas and roasted turkey dinners and pot roast and chicken parmesan, but no one ever thought to remodel the kitchen.

Once, my mom (who was the server trainer at The Piece at the time) and I sketched out a new layout for the kitchen that involved nothing more than trimming down a two foot bit of counter to move some of the refrigeration equipment around. The largest cold unit was at the breakfast grill, which got used for one-and-half hours per day. At the lunch/dinner grill was this tiny little thing that couldn't even hold all of the ingredients we needed.

We got an estimate for what it would cost to fix the counter: $200. In one year, the increased productivity would earn more than that back for the store. But the company wouldn't spring for it.

Nor would they spring for a new fryer. Ours was only ten years old and, occasionally, when turned on, would throw a blue fireball from the electical connection.

It also broke every other month, necessitating a $200 repair each time. (A new fryer was $600.) No, that makes no sense at all, to buy a new fryer when you can spend that money repairing the old one! Or paying your legal fees when your kitchen manager (that would be me) gets electrocuted while trying to open the kitchen in the morning.

Good thing I'm gone from there.

I was supposed to have an entrpreneur's conference in October, but they didn't have enough people registered, and so it was bumped back again, to January. Well, at least I have more time to do my research before going, so that I can figure out what I need to learn and ask.

Oh! And I forgot this SQUEEEEEE-worthy detail! My dad went to pick up my Christmas present the other day.

Christmas present, you ask? Now?!

He got me a new ice cream maker. My current ice cream maker involves freezing the mixing bowl for a day before use, which uses a lot of freezer space. It also means that I can't make more than two--at most--batches of ice cream in a row.

My new ice cream maker will not require pre-freezing. So I will have two ice cream makers now. Why do I have a feeling that I'm going to have to set aside a special budget, just for cream?

And Bobby is looking into getting me a small under-the-counter freezer so that my ice cream and his giant packages of frozen meat don't have to compete for freezer space.

Felak happy.... :)

Okay, rambling about food service and ice cream aside....


Being as I have people on my flist much more knowledgeable about canon than I am, I wanted to pose a few Silmarillion questions.

The first came from a discussion aramel_calawen and I were having earlier, in Chapter 16 of AMC. (Although it has nothing to do with AMC.) I remember, a while back, being privy to a conversation about the nature of Eöl's and Aredhel's marriage.

According to someone in this conversation, Tolkien originally envisioned that Eöl forced Aredhel into marriage. Of course, this idea was eventually rejected.

Problem is, I don't know that I've ever seen this in HoMe, but I don't own but a few volumes and have precious little reading time to devote to studying old versions of The Silmarillion. Most of my HoMe reading occurs in bookstores, standing in the aisles, drooling over books I can't afford.

Has anyone ever heard of this idea? Or (even better!) have a source?

Second question: I have heard numerous people reference the fact that Finwë was not one of the original Elves from Cuivienen.

Intuitively, it has always seemed to me that he was, and I have never seen anything to dispute this. (Although, as most of you know, I am no canatic.) I asked this question over at the Henneth Annun Yahoo! list a few months ago, and I got a few responses from people who believed--as I did--that Finwë was Unbegotten.

Is there any evidence to the contrary? Because I have heard people speak quite definitively to their opinion that he was not, and they seemed certain of this canonically, not just as though it was a fanficcer's whim.

I realize that Olwë and Elwë were brothers, but so were Manwë and Melkor, and Irmo and Namo, but they were "brethren in the thought of Eru" (or something like that).

Any thoughts?

Comments

[enismirdal.livejournal.com]

The argument I've been given goes back to the stories in BOLT1 - in which every Elf waking at Cuivienen had their spouse beside them. Finwë and Míriel are said to have fallen in love when in Valinor, which sort of suggests they met later on in the history of Arda, so couldn't have been Unbegotten. Plus, Míriel's name "Serinde" is given as a mother-name in PoME.

Gacked from Usenet:

The 'Awakening' story has 144 Quendi as 'Unbegotten' (those who 'Awoke', and were not 'Born'). Now these 144 were 72 pairs. Each Quendi awoke next to his or her 'destined spouse' (see WotJ, 'Of Quendi and Eldar'). Elwe had to wife Melian, who he met later in Beleriand. Melian was a Maia did not Awake at Cuivienen. Hence Elwe did not Awake at Cuivienen. Elwe is attested to as having (at least) 2 siblings (Olwe and Elmo). Elwe, Olwe and Elmo being brothers need parents. Hence Elwe was born. Miriel Serinde was the wife of Finwe. Serinde is attested to as a 'mother-name' (see PoME, 'Shibboleth of Feanor'). A 'mother-name' is given to an Elda by their mother (op. cit.). Thus by definition Miriel Serinde had a mother. Thus she did not Awaken at Cuivienen beside her 'destined spouse'. Thus Finwe did not Awaken at Cuivienen. Ingwe had a sister (Indis or Indis' mother depending on version.) Thus they had parents. Thus Ingwe did not 'Awake' but was born.

Full discussion is here. I guess the argument swings on how much value you place on stories from BOLT1, really.

[kaikias.livejournal.com]

I bow to your superior HoME knowledge. That is some right interesting information about Miriel.

[enismirdal.livejournal.com]

LOL It was all research from the guys on rec.arts.tolkien - they really do their stuff. *always impressed* I just Googled and copy-pasted, I'm afraid!

[kaikias.livejournal.com]

OK, I bow to their superior HoME knowledge and your superior research skills. *grin*

[dawn_felagund]

Sweet! Thanks so much! :D

I generally regard LotR and The Hobbit as absolute canon. Silmarillion is next, and then the material from the HoMe books and other supplemental works. From those I generally take things I like and leave the rest. (Like the spouse of Maglor! But then I leave the death of Ambarussa at Losgar.... :( )

I admit to being an awful canatic in my stories. (I prefer "liberal canon," though, it sounds nicer ;D) This is just something about which I have always been intensely curious.

Thank you again! What wonderful research :)

[kaikias.livejournal.com]

I think the deal with Finwe is he wasn't necessarily one of the first bunch, as his name doesn't turn up at all in the Cuivienyarna, does it? He'd have to have been at Cuivienen to be one of the three ambassadors to Aman. The other thing is that sometimes people identify Finwe with Tata, probably a no-no if we're going on the Cuivienyarna and not pre-LotR material. I've seen discussions of the matter that throw out all manner of theories about Finwe maybe being a descendant of Tata and Tata maybe being the ancestor both of the Tatyarin Avari's leaders and of the lesser lords among the Noldor (and about Irime maybe being Voronwe's grandmother, so you know just how wild these theories are!).

And I don't think bringing in the Valar is a valid argument here—they were effectively figments of Eru's imagination that took on lives of their own. Kind of like puppets/muses, really. :)

[dawn_felagund]

I've never equated Finwe with Tata, nor have I ever heard anyone who did, so that is pretty amazing to me. But I guess there are all manner of theories out there.

I have always like Finwe to be Unbegotten but for purely artistic reasons. I can live with the canatic justification...but he will still be Unbegotten in my stories, although I do like the idea of awaking beside one's spouse, in terms of mythology anyway. As far as story-fodder goes, it is pretty undramatic to say, "We love each other because we were made to love each other." But that's the problem, I suppose, with approaching this material as a writer.

I suppose that I have always assumed that the appointed ambassadors would come from the original ones who awoke, and that is why Finwe has always been Unbegotten to me.

Thank you, as always, for your wonderful insight. I am convinced that I have the best flist on the planet! :)

[kaikias.livejournal.com]

I rather agree with you, and given the reasoning set forth in other comments, it seems fairly likely Finwe was one of the original 144, even if maybe Ingwe, Elwe, Olwe and Elmo perhaps weren't. (Personally, I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of the appointed ambassadors being a younger generation, but then I've always been contrary about this stuff.)

[enismirdal.livejournal.com]

LOL And I am sure I will learn a lot about bees in the next year - I have to investigate them for my degree project, with choice-chambers and allsorts! The project outline told us not to apply if we were allergic to bee-stings, so I guess I had better be careful with them! (Luckily bees seem to like me - I've been known to carry them on my finger and pet them...)

[dawn_felagund]

And here I thought I was the only weirdo to pet bees! ;D I used to pet bumblebees all the time when I was young. They're very soft :)

I've often heard the myth that "bees smell fear." I don't know about that, but I *do* know that when I squashed the one on Bobby's plate, her sisters came to investigate!

I would like to raise bees for honey someday. Poor Bobby, though, shudders at the thought. Guess I'll be going that one alone ;)

Your project sounds interesting, by the way!

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

BoLT 2 for Eol and Aredhel, I would guess (I haven't read it for ages, so I'm not sure) because Tolkien's elves were more inclined to 'deeds of lust' when he first wrote them.

Originally Feanor's father (Bruthwir) had a father (Maidros), but that was obviously before he became Finwe's second son. That's the only thing I can remember right now that hasn't been said already!

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

Another idea - if you're using sun years in the A of A, then Finwe is definitely one of the unbegotten because none of their descendents (if they had any) would be adults by the time Orome chose his ambassadors.

[dawn_felagund]

All good points. Thanks :)

I keep forgetting to tell you how much I enjoy your new icon!

I think I'm going to be asking for BoLT 1 and 2 for the holidays this year.... ;)

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

I made the icon because they served five courses of fish every day at my conference in Italy, although unfortunately there weren't any chips, and I had an inverse-Gollum moment!

Lost Tales aren't among my favourites in the HoME series, but that's probably because of all the Aelwine stuff. I might like them better if I read them again and skip the preambles.

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

And I forgot to say that I found the reference in LT 2, but it was in Christopher Tolkien's commentary, so I don't think it counts.

[tarion-anarore.livejournal.com]

I can't say I'm very partial to bees...Once I killed one out of sheer willpower. It was pretty crazy!

Yay for very early Christmas presents!! And for ice cream! I'm still holding out for a horse this Christmas, but I've been asking for one since I was about 3 and haven't gotten one yet...

As for the Silm questions...well, *draws another tally under "HoME is Evil"* I only have the Book of Lost Tales I. So pretty much, I have no idea. It could probably go either way, seeing as how there are two versions of so many of the stories in the Silm.

[dawn_felagund]

I can't say I'm very partial to bees...

You're in my husband's camp then! His famous saying, "If you don't get it away from me, Dawn, I'm going to kill it." And, of course, being a pacifist/vegetarian/pansy, I have it away from him :)

I'm still holding out for a horse this Christmas, but I've been asking for one since I was about 3 and haven't gotten one yet...

Yeah, I always used to ask for a horse too. I heard that our property wasn't zoned for a horse and that boarding was too expensive and yada-yada-yada...I'm just going to have to make lots of money selling ice cream and buy my own!

As for the Silm questions...well, *draws another tally under "HoME is Evil"*

Agreed. I probably make the canatics scream with this, but I take what I like from HoMe and leave the rest. But I *do* like to know where people's interpretation comes from. Kind of like knowing the rules before you break them, which incidentally, is one of my favorite rules in writing too ;)

[tarion-anarore.livejournal.com]

"If you don't get it away from me, Dawn, I'm going to kill it."

I usually just let that sentence dangle. "If you don't get it away from me...."

I'm just going to have to make lots of money selling ice cream and buy my own!

LOL! I'll help you out and buy a cone or sixty. :)

I probably make the canatics scream with this, but I take what I like from HoMe and leave the rest.

*Whisper* Wait, you mean you're not supposed to do that?...;)

[tehta.livejournal.com]

I probably make the canatics scream with this, but I take what I like from HoMe and leave the rest.

Well, you kind of have to, don't you, since so much of it is contradictory... Also, claiming that Pengolodh might have written down rumour, or given things a certain slant, seems fairly grounded in canon.

As for Eol, here's what I found in 'Quendi and Eldar', in 'War of the Jewels':

'Eol found Irith, the sister of King Turgon, astray in the wild near his dwelling, and he took her to wife by force: a very wicked deed in the eyes of the Eldar"

but this seems to have been a brief idea only, because in the zillion versions of Maeglin's story it is not mentioned again.

[frenchpony.livejournal.com]

Sounds like you could get yourself a little ice cream stand going next summer. Start building up toward the eventual debut of Ye Elvish Ice Cream Shoppe.

I can understand the restaurant's problems with replacing fryers on a very gut New England level -- if you grow up in Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut or Rhode Island, the old rhyme will forever echo in the deep dark wells of your consciousness:

Use it up;
Wear it out;
Make it do;
Or do without.

And you're never really convinced that you've ever worn something out. Even when you know perfectly well that it costs more to repair than to replace. Of course, when it's a fryer that tries to electrocute one of your employees, even I, New England born and bred, would throw that sucker on the scrap pile and spring for a new one. . .

One of the reasons I love being in grad school is that I get to check out the HoME books for a whole semester at a time, and I can renew them many times. It's pretty much like being able to check them out of the library for two years.

Here's what I think about Finwë and Miriel and Eöl and Aredhel: First off, you can certainly separate the concepts "original Elves" and "of Cuivienen." Nothing to say they didn't go about reproducting before schlepping themselves off to Valinor. So, while Finwë and Miriel probably had parents (see arguments about mother-names, siblings, etc.), nothing says they can't have been born at Cuivienen. You can kind of have that both ways if you want.

Eöl and Aredhel: Perhaps the true story involves copious amounts of alcohol.

[dawn_felagund]

Start building up toward the eventual debut of Ye Elvish Ice Cream Shoppe.

LoL! Yes, my (eventual) ice cream store is going to be called Nelyo's. It was going to be called Ecthelion's Ice Cream Fountain, but my consultants (my hubby and our friend Potter) and I decided that, not only was it hard to say (and remember) for a non-geekTolkienite, but there might be a copyright issue involved. Not willing to go *there,* especially with the Tolkien Estate!

I can understand the restaurant's problems with replacing fryers on a very gut New England level

Our company originated in New England, so that is interesting to know!

But our franchise owners did *not,* and so they have no excuse. They were crash-it, trash-it Bal'morons. And when half of your menu goes in the fryer, you don't ask your cooks to run to the back to use the breakfast fryer, especially when you're only willing to staff two cooks at your busiest hours. Oh, my poor feet hated those shifts.... (Luckily, I worked mostly the cold side as most of my coworkers were male, and men have a thing for using the grill and fryer.)

I answer with one of my favorite sayings: You must spend money to make money.

Or, the pessimist's version: Shit in, shit out!

Of course, when it's a fryer that tries to electrocute one of your employees, even I, New England born and bred, would throw that sucker on the scrap pile and spring for a new one. . .

I used to flip the switch with a broom handle, just to be safe. Of course, when I was training new breakfast cooks, it was always interesting to explain to them why I did it that way. "Yes, welcome to The Piece. Now, if this thing breaks again, it's going to throw a blue fireball, so it's best to stand back, grab the longest broom you can find--make sure it has a wooden handle!--and do it that way. Any questions?"

Nothing to say they didn't go about reproducting before schlepping themselves off to Valinor.

I've always thought it inevitable, since I seem to recall reading somewhere (why, oh, why can I never remember sources???) that the Journey took 200 years unto itself. Who knows how long they hung around before beginning it. I can't believe that they didn't figure out how to reproduce during that time.

*waits patiently because, surely, someone around here does know!*

Eöl and Aredhel: Perhaps the true story involves copious amounts of alcohol.

Heh. Quite possibly!

[ford-of-bruinen.livejournal.com]

give me until tomorrow or monday and I'll give you the whole long thing :P I did extensive research on those bits for my new monster fic.... yes journey took 200 yeras of over don;t remember exact details ;)

As for unbegotten you already got that answered I think but here is somethign else to consider ;) Elwe and Olwe were brothers so they at elast must have had parents which means there is at least a second generation of elves. Elwe also did not marry a spouse woken beside him at cuivienen so we know he was definitely not.. my theory? none of the three were... they were just the most adventurous and curious :D

[aramel-calawen.livejournal.com]

Eöl and Aredhel: Perhaps the true story involves copious amounts of alcohol.

Very possibly. :P

However, having flipped through LACE and looked through the references, it probably wasn't. Maeglin's existence is proof of that, since both Elves have to consciously want to have kids in order to have kids. No accidental pregnancies.

On another note, I loved Curufin when he was glaring darkly at Eol. That's Curufin all over, that is.

[frenchpony.livejournal.com]

Well, maybe the marriage was the result of copious amounts of alcohol and Maeglin just came along later. Maybe the marriage was the result of Aredhel drinking too much, but Maeglin was the result of Eöl drinking himself silly that evening.

Now I'm having all sorts of evil thoughts about Aredhel, already trapped into marriage with a guy she doesn't care all that much for, figures she might as well get something out of that deal and thinks up a way to oops Eöl into having a kid.

[kaikias.livejournal.com]

People make all kinds of stupid decisions when drunk, you know. :)